How much can I make???

[capsmart]

How am I going to define how much money I can make on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis.
We all say that we have to treat forex like a business.
So let's say that I have a certain amount available to start a business.
Because there are not so many businesses that can be started with 1000, 2000 or 5000 (a usual forex account) let's say that I have 50.000 dollars available to start a business.
I could choose to open a small "something" where I would probably work all day long and maybe even on Saturdays and Sundays. Making a 20% net profit after taxes ROI (return on investment) would it be a good amount? Of course it depends on many factors but making enough money to pay back for my investment in 5 years looks like a good opportunity.
I could put in the bank and if converted to Aud make a 5% after taxes.
Or I could trade forex. What do you think would be a reasonable profit?
The money in the bank provides a certain safety, my capital is usable immediately.
With my "small" business, I might lose my capital, I will have to put many hours, the outcome is not certain, if I need to liquidate my company I might not find a buyer and maybe it is the next MxDDD making me ultra rich 10 years from now.
Forex "should" be somewhere in between? I will only work 5 days a week, during the week I might work as long as I can. During official holidays I enjoy family life, the remaining capital is always available, can work from home, if I have 5000 or 50.000 or 500.000 the job is the same.
What do you think?
I would like to hear your suggestions, thoughts, propositions.

[raa]

I think with a sound strategy, risk management and holding onto the plan (which is most difficult) one can be a millionaire in 2-3 years. But there are many "buts" as we all know: system hopping, holy grail looking, taking too much risk, breaking the rules. Result is not very good. But the prospect I think is much better than any business. The only thing better than trading is owning a broker. And the only thing better than owning a broker is owning a bank and issue money under fractional reserve rules

[capsmart]

So you say that I can make 1.000.000 from my 50.000 in 2-3 years. Hmm If I triple my capital every year, after one year I will have in my account 150.000 then the second year 450.000 and the third year 1.350.000.
Is this realistic? Or are we just BS?

[raa]

Caps, I can't say much with regards to technical trading as I only was consistently successful for these 5 weeks with new method while market behaved, but I made 700 pips and some amount too.

However I can say about news trading, it cannot differ much when compared with properly executed technical trading. I started to get involved into it since June-July 2010, and started actively trade from September-October, so 8-9 month. I did not take any crazy risks like some people in news trading do (literally "all-in" full margin, every time, most don't last too long though), but still bigger than in technical but this is name of the game, you have better win-loss ratio in news than in technical,but wins can be smaller than risk in at least half times, so you have to use risk. Anyway, I did not start anywhere big, but I have made already at least 3 times the original capital using compounding.

People do make money, sometimes crazy. Like one person I know said recently: now the problem is not the capital, the problem is to find a way how to put 200 lots through at once..

Sky is the limit. This is real folks.

PS I am not bragging, don't take me wrong, just sort of encouraging, for me the most difficult thing was to break forex ice was to actually accept an idea this thing really can make money, consistently, and it can compaund and grow, out of nothing. That was hard and took a long while to be honest. So if someone feels the same - fear not. This is true, this is real, just do your homework, and listen to Marc, Dean and Pierre

[capsmart]

Hmm interesting...
Except for Alex nobody wants to touch this subject.
Are we (including me) realistic about our goals?

I will search the internet and try to find what other people have to say about it.

[Pierre]

I bought the `T-SHIRT `on this one....sitting with the calculator everyday working out what I can make.

It does your head in and putt expectations out there that are not all in line with reality. Reality is every week is different............every day for that matter. If you are a conservative trader..........then things tend to take a bit longer.

Bottom line is I will take what the market gives me.................NOT WHAT I WANT.

This needs patience...........

I am with you Caps, if it is a 50 000 dollar accounts or 5000 dollar account, the job should be the same..................BUT IS IT? Have anyone here pulled the trigger on a real 50 000 dollar account before? Let me tell you the job is the same but the old buddy emotions eat you up with this size account and that is why most traders will only risk a small percentage per trade.

The flip side again.....if I only make 5 % per month on this size account risking only 1% per trade – Can I make a living with 2 500-00 dollars a month. In my country yes. You will be considered starting of the middle class..................you or the wife still have to work to up this to pay all the bills a month......but in some countries 2500 dollars is considered a kids pocket money.

The problem is................and I blame the forex marketing people for this............How de hell are you going to do that with a 5000-00 dollar account? Making a living withdrawing your winnings every month? There is no way in hell you can make what some of these dudes tell you, you can make a month with a small account.

Yes it can be a cool savings account and you can build it with compound interest, but do most people have the patience to do that and stick to what works and not run after the holy grails that the marketing people are making us believe is out there?

Don’t know................what do you dudes think?

Regards

Pierre

[capsmart]

Question for you Pierre.
When the Irish boys came to see you what did they expect you to make for them?
Some time ago, speaking with a friend of mine, that is in the banking business for yeeeears, told me that if I could steadily make a 20% per year, all banks would kill to hire me and give me a couple of millions to trade for them just to start with.
Next step would be to introduce me to their private clients and trade directly for them according to their risk appetite.

[Pierre]

Caps..............I speak under correction here...........but if you place your money here in South Africa in a high paying savings account you might get 8% per year........that is high if you look at some other countries. That is why our rand got stronger over the last year. People take their money from overseas and bring it here.

Regarding brokers or Dublin boys...........RISK IS THE NAME OF THE GAME.
The problem is,(well it’s not a problem, it is their rules and doesn’t fit in with the street trader like us) you work for them and you play by their rules. Depends on the rules but they might allow you only to risk 0.5 per trade............and you are not allowed to have more than 1% in the market at any time.

So yes........I doubled my personal account within 4 months this year..............but show this to the big boys.................they will have a heart attack. Then in the other hand....you are trading millions so it is understandable that they will not like it when you have 5-10% in the market.
( That is why I said, I take what the market gives me.....one month I made 9.21%, then a 15.15% and then a big month of 42%....33%......so the young ones out there, take trading as a job where you work for commission...........every month is different, some months you might make nothing or even have a loss).

Yes there are dudes in the forum that is probably making more percentage wise than me..........BUT that doesn’t fit my risk portfolio. A couple of bad trades and your account is up in flames by doing that.

Ask a couple of dudes here in the forum...............they are hanging around here in the forum and might not even post threads or have comments. But between Marc and myself we can share some big tears we receive via e-mail and PM`S on a monthly basis. People that believe that the more you risk the more you can make. Ask............they out there. That is way Marc and Dean and I preach everyday.....BUT PEOPLE WHANT RESALTS AND THEY WHANT IT EYSTERDAY. Patience is a bad word in their book.

O..........yes Raa, one more thing, some of them don’t like you to hedge trades mate!!

So yes.............as I said if the bank give you here 8% per year, and you can make them 16% a year on a steady basis..................THEY WILL LOVE YOU !!!

But that is hard going risking only 0.5 % TRADING FROM BIGGER TIME FRAMES WITH BIGGER STOPS, isn’t it?

So that boils down to Patience again isn’t it?

Regards

Pierre
PS..............DONT TAKE ME TO THE BANK FOR IT!!!

[Tokolosh]

Pierre you have shattered my dream of becoming a millionaire by the end of the year..........oh well maybe i will try and learn patience instead

[Pierre]

Sorry Tok..................